Season 1, Ep 9: Banned Books
Hi Friends! In this episode of TBR Lowdown, we:
Talk about banned books.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Castro, Overcast, Breaker, and iHeart Radio.
** See the AI-generated transcripts below!
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Banned Books Week was September 26 - October 2. In this episode, we go through and discuss the Top 100 Most Banned and Challenged Books: 2010-2019 list from the American Library Association.
Highlights:
🎙We chat about mental illness and the language used around it
🎙The most common topics that prompt people to challenge books
🎙Using banned books as a way to discriminate
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Read with us for our October book club picks! Visit https://www.tbrlowdown.com/blog/oct2021picks to see what we’re reading this month.
Visit https://www.tbrlowdown.com/readalongs for information on our Ulysses and 1Q84 read-along. The Ulysses read-along started Sunday, September 5, 2021.
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Transcripts are AI generated and are not perfect. Transcribed by https://otter.ai. Enjoy!
“Naomi 0:11
We are here we are.
Alyssa 0:13
Here we are. I’m just sorry Naomi. So hello. Yeah.
Naomi 0:17
Thanks, nurse. Alyssa.
Alyssa 0:20
Here welcome. If Naomi starts Twitch, it’s because I’ve given her PTSD scars
Naomi 0:27
scarred me with these stories. I’m not ready for it. All right.
Alyssa 0:32
We’re back. We’re back. We’re back.
Naomi 0:35
We’re back to do what Alyssa, what are we talking about today?
Alyssa 0:38
Oh, so it is banned. Book week? Yeah. How we call it? Yeah. Somebody said celebration at some point. And I was like, well, so. So there’s a I put it in my stories. I don’t think I send it to you as a post from Hey, Kelly Jensen, about banned book week, which starts on September 26. And runs through Saturday, that second of October. And
Naomi 1:08
oh, let me interject, if I may. And just let people know that we are. We are recording this episode on Monday, September 27, which is day two of banned books, man, but this episode will not be published until Monday, October 3, which is the day after bam. Book week’s week ends
Alyssa 1:28
or before whatever that Monday. Yeah, yeah. And we can link this post I put it in my stories mostly so I can keep going back to it and grab it. So don’t lose it. But she went through some of that and I hope you don’t mind me just sharing this right at the top because I kind of want to Yeah, go ahead. Get it right in the beginning. Yeah, banned books. banned book displays, and trading cards and other similar things are cool. They really are, but I sure as hell, but I sure as hell there is more education about the real, everyday challenges and censorship attempts going on locally, they get almost no attention at all, a little bit of a typo there and I can’t speak thanks to the death of local journalism. Many of these stories go completely unnoticed. This is dangerous as it sets a culture of fear. For those who select library materials. It’s a perfect way for them to participate in soft censorship. Through not buying items, we get so caught up in the idea of Banned Books being a thing that doesn’t happen or is the same few books or that these books deserve to be read or why they are were banned. And it feels so removed from the realities of the acts against the freedom to information. I can tell you how many book challenge stories I broke this year, due to a tip or spending hours digging into documents, I can also tell you how many I have not written about or shared because I am one person in one city in one town. You’re seeing the York PA story now because cnn covered it this year, consider focusing banned book week, not on the titles not on the why instead shift to how radical the First Amendment is in how libraries protect it rather than the books that people who want to and have polled, because they’re personally opposed to banned book, books, weak and banned, books are not worth celebrating. There is nothing to celebrate here. No, it is not great for authors who cares about your sales increasing because of a challenge. The book is being restricted to those who need it. Those who most harm those most harmed with challenge. Challenges are indeed the most marginalized, already hurting communities, you can buy the book from Amazon, but the 13 year old who doesn’t have a credit card or a car or parents who are supportive cannot consider this year, what stories you’re hearing, consider the ones you are hearing, what commonalities do they have? And what can you do in your community to go about challenges the First Amendment, and I just thought that was a really important thing to remember that, you know, we do these book challenges, and we do these things. And we’d have these discussions and they’re important, but there’s, there’s a lot more to it than just this week of going live here are these banned books. Because there are things like the York PA where the you know, governments, local and big are trying to restrict the freedom of information.
Naomi 4:18
Well, well hang on already, because you just said something that I didn’t know was the thing. So when you say bamboo challenges, what do you what are you talking about? I
Alyssa 4:26
believe that there are several like reading banned books like trying to read from. So there’s banned and challenged books like books that we’ve challenged. That’s the list that you and I kind of go through today and talk about some of the books that we are familiar with. And then I think that they’re also talking about, I think what she’s getting at is that there are you know, people celebrating this week by reading banned books and doing like, book challenges. Oh, to celebrate banned books and it’s not something that we should be celebrating at all. I should be casting. Yeah, we should be. But we should also be working to make sure that people have access to books that are being challenged and banned in different regions and areas and making sure that these libraries in the areas are able to stock these books and have so kids can have access to these books and adults can have access to these books. And that it’s not just not just a celebration, cuz we’re going to go through a while talk about the books that I just added. I felt I felt like we should just start right from the beginning. Just making it clear that there was this is more than just just a book like there’s our right to,
Naomi 5:38
I don’t think I was aware of the challenges per se, I guess I hadn’t really paid attention to that. But I, I do not like using the word celebration or celebratory as a race to ban books. I don’t like that. Because I guess I feel like when you ban books, you’re like, you’re like silencing people. Yeah, and everything about that feels criminal. And so the word celebration of celebrate just feels misplaced to me. Yeah. So
Alyssa 6:12
and I know that there’s a greater conversation happening currently, we’re not going to name everybody’s names, or do any of that, because they don’t deserve time on our platform. But there is a greater conversation happening in the book community about what is free speech? What is free speech mean? What is all of this stuff, right? And so it’s definitely something that’s incredibly important, and banning books is something that governments do to control.
Naomi 6:41
Absolutely. That’s what they say Mises reading this power. You know, there’s a reason why over the centuries, you know, books, and you know, being able to read has been something that, you know, a lot of governments don’t want you to be able to do, you can empower yourself through reading words, it’s it’s mighty powerful, you know, and also to when you are able to read and you have access to books that speak about the truth to a lot of powers. Now you question things. Yeah, now, particularly a people become begins to rise up, now you begin to understand that you’ve been sold some kind of a lie, and they don’t want that to happen. So there was great power in reading.
Alyssa 7:27
Yes. So like, that’s why I mean, I think our discussion today is an important discussion to talk about these books. And this week is important for people to highlight different books. But it’s also important to remember how powerful books are, how powerful the First Amendment is the ability of us, for us to have the discourse that we have, and the disagreements that we get to have, and the dissent that we get to have, like the fact that you can sit on a platform, and just like the the freedom of speech conversation that’s happening between, you know, I would say three specific groups on bookstagram. Right now, the fact that that can exist, is huge, absolutely. Whatever side you fall on, it is huge, that you can have that discussion, that you can openly have dissent between two groups, whichever wants in power, and you know, you’re not getting sent to Siberia, or right, or, you know, de being disappeared or arrested. Or because there are many places in this world where that has and continues to happen. Oh yeah, you use your voice to speak out against whatever the norm is, or whatever the power is, whatever the main line is, and these, you know, controlling what books get to be read, especially by young people, is the easiest way to control information and brainwash in a way a generation
Naomi 9:03
so important. I’m glad you started with that.
Alyssa 9:07
I so poured myself for the rest of my wine and my so fucking over it.
Naomi 9:12
Oh, can I just have them put on everything? Just is it just,
Alyssa 9:15
it felt appropriate? It’s this discussion.
Naomi 9:18
It’s so appropriate. It’s so appropriate step man and books got Dang it, just stop it.
Alyssa 9:24
Oh, my grandma was a librarian. And I mean, libraries are so important. They are I think about how much you probably saw this as well like during the the panorama. How many things did your library do for the community? Were they a vaccine center were open and doing things were they putting things on their social media were they beefing up their digital catalog so that you know people at home had access to things were they food banks were they you know the amount that your library is a huge part of your community. Yeah, and The more that you interact with it, the more it becomes part of your community. And it’s, it’s a beautiful place. Yeah, the
Naomi 10:07
library is a huge community resource. And I, you know, I, I didn’t realize that a lot of people don’t understand all the functions of a library, they do more than just provide books. You know, so many kids go there after school to do homework on computers, because guess what, everyone doesn’t have a computer at home, and everyone doesn’t have internet access at home. But the library has free usage of those things. And there are so many kids that go there after school to do their homework. All those computers use the library’s internet every single school day, there is free tutoring at the library, there’s various workshops on starting a business doing your Ted like you name it, the library has that’s why it’s so important to keep them fully funded. And I wish that every city state town had a library because some places don’t have a library at all. And I really wish they did it there’s they’re so important.
Alyssa 11:04
It speaks exactly what you’re thinking about what you just said the reason they don’t have libraries is because it’s an easy thing to cut so if you have funding going, or you need it to go to whatever else you think is more important, that’s kind of an easy place to cut. Just think it’s it’s just it’s just where kids go to get books they can go to the next town over it’s not just that I know that there are many places like the Danbury, Connecticut library has like language like learning sweets or something like that. And it has they have a much more diverse community than say, like I have here. So it’s such a huge resource for people to learn how to just generally communicate with each other and get a job and better their lives and do the site and the other things and like it seems it seems silly but it’s a little that little piece like somebody’s coming here from another country and learning enough English to get a job as opposed to not learning enough English and struggling to find a job that could be a break their life to have free access to that. That’s amazing.
Naomi 12:05
The library is an extension of your you know, greater community they are there so needed and so you know, please understand, yes, the library does provide books, but they also provide a number of services for children and adults, and it’s critical. It’s critical.
Alyssa 12:26
So, one everybody stopped for a second pause, look up your local library and find a way to interact with your local library
Naomi 12:34
get a library card if you have time to volunteer volunteer. Oh, they have
Alyssa 12:39
library sales go to them. They do events, go to them do something, find a way to interact so that they keep sending money to your library so yes, it stays funded and it exists Yes, because it’s it’s really it’s it’s so important
Naomi 12:56
it is anyway Alright so we’ve got here we’ve got a link to a la.org and we’re looking at the top 100 most banned and challenged books from your 2010 through 2019 oh boy the list is
Alyssa 13:17
now I don’t know all the reasons why all these are banned. I don’t even know what all these books are. But I think like number three on the list I’m looking at right now I got distracted by the label that’s on the bottom of my mug. I’m taking that off because you know neck readers and labels we don’t we don’t like them. I was like number three like Captain Underpants. Like number two. Why is Captain Underpants on here? Yeah, I think that the whole series I feel like there was some sort of controversy with the author at some point but I thought he like apologized for it and did it in like a good way if I’m wrong about that. Someone please correct me. I’m not eligible, knowledgeable human on the face of the earth. I know a lot of little, I know a little about a lot of things. Which makes me dangerous.
Naomi 14:01
My friend’s son never got into Captain Underpants. I’m like, do you want to try these books? He was like, No, I was like, Okay, well, yeah, I mean, they might not think so. I don’t know anything about them. You know that this challenge, or whatever. But
Alyssa 14:16
it just seems it seems so stupid. Anyway. So you want to start sorry, we’ll start with one I jumped to two.
Naomi 14:21
Yeah, the number one the absolutely true Diary of a part time Indian by Sherman Alexie never heard of that book.
Alyssa 14:30
I’ve seen it on here. It’s been on here for a while, and I don’t really know anything about it.
Naomi 14:36
And that I guess that’s one of the craziest things too, right. So like anybody can challenge a book. Yeah, you know, I mean, you know, petition your, your your school and the school board. And, you know, now that you have an issue, you know, it doesn’t have to be, you know, some person of major importance. Anyone can challenge a book. Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa 15:00
I mean that’s why that whole thing that was happening in York PA was so upsetting also you and I need to I need to circle back on that email I got from ACLU about like district near me where they were like the amount of just disparities between education like disparities between our black communities and literally everybody else right in the area and that that that goes into all of this too like if you’re if you’re going to control the spread of information so whoever is the dominant person is going to do it so that they can remain dominant that is a natural That is to say, so yeah, it’s but this looks like this absolutely true Diary of a part time Indian is just like a young adult story about a Native American teenager. Okay, like what’s your problem? You know, it’s about the depiction of alcohol poverty bullying sex violence
Naomi 16:06
sex that there there it is.
Alyssa 16:09
Oh, and it is related to homosexuality and what the ability is but like there’s like these are all so the things that are here and this is just gonna be competing your search so perhaps it’s wrong. We’re doing this on the fly. So it’s it depicts alcohol poverty, bullying, I think the general play those things slide like people are fine with it, then you hit and violence sexuality, profanity for some reason, the tipper gore’s of this world do not like to profanity, they do not are not old enough to know that about, or violent video games. But then homosexuality, I bet you like is a huge part of all of these bannings like the amount of banning books that’s just related to being queer is insane to me,
Naomi 16:49
right? I mean, that really gets people up in arms, doesn’t it? You know, they don’t want their kids reading
Alyssa 16:56
them. Because they think it’s gonna teach them to be gay.
Naomi 17:00
It’s so strange, isn’t it? That this whole thought process that if my child reads a book about a queer person that that’s going to turn my child queer
Alyssa 17:10
that’s it’s not how that works? Not
Naomi 17:14
at all how it works, it’s just so unbelievably ignorant. I just, I can’t wrap my head around it.
Alyssa 17:22
You just showed your ass and you just show that you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Right clearly do not understand how sexuality works. And the fact that probably a significant night and I mean significant statistically, not majority majority Lee, it’s not a word portion of the people that are probably coming out against things just because based on homosexuality, weirdness, are probably repressing something.
Naomi 17:46
Right? Also, too. I think it’s funny how these are a lot of these people who try to ban or challenge your book. They think that by banning or challenging said book, it’s going to keep their, their child out of the presence of set things that they’re trying to ban. And it’s like, do you think that if you ban a queer book that your child is not going to be in direct contact with other queer children, like, just try being smart for one second, like your child is going to be in the presence of queer people and more than likely will be their friend. So you’re trying to ban a book and stuff so that is going to happen regardless.
Alyssa 18:27
But this is like everywhere where somebody tries to control behavior. Have you seen all the like tic tocs and reels and news clips and stuff about, you know, like the show like some man going up to some woman on the beach and yelling at her for wearing a bikini and how there are children here, and how it’s inappropriate and macho, and flexing your modesty culture on other people’s like you can’t go out and pub if you don’t want your child to see that and you’re so adamantly against something like that. Maybe you need to not leave your ranch. I don’t know. Like, you know what I mean? Like because the world isn’t here to bout like kowtow to you. It’s not its couch, am I allowed to say that bow to you like it that’s not how this works
Naomi 19:17
like, right? Like your beliefs are your beliefs. You can you can have that you can have them, but you don’t need to encroach upon my space, and my belief system. Like leave me out of it. Let people out of it, whatever you believe is what you believe, but leave other folks alone. And I have not seen those tic tocs with that sounds and that sounds crazy.
Alyssa 19:44
It’s crazy. And it’s and it’s always like, it’s always some very angry, like white guy or woman screaming at somebody on the beach, and like or like in a park or wherever. It’s Just like because somehow their behavior that they have no control over is affecting them. Even though nobody’s interacting with each
Naomi 20:08
other. It’s like just so bizarre,
Alyssa 20:11
but it’s scary behavior. And
Naomi 20:14
yes, if you have the audacity to approach a complete stranger and yell at them, because they’re doing a worrying something that you feel is so offensive to what you believe in that is cuckoo land crazy,
Alyssa 20:26
is cuckoo land crazy. If I talk to a stranger. It has to be like I either like you need to move and I’m saying excuse me very quietly. Because my social anxiety will not allow me to just talk to strangers. But if I’m getting like aggressive verbally aggressive with a stranger, you have done something that’s actually heinous.
Naomi 20:51
Yes, yes.
Alyssa 20:53
So that’s that’s how we kick stuff off.
Naomi 20:55
I guess my my Thought for the Day is just because you try to ban a book does not mean you’re going to ban that particular experience, you know, from your child, because, you know,
Alyssa 21:06
you just can’t What are how many of these are really heard or how many of these include a homosexual component?
Naomi 21:14
Well, okay, so we’re at Okay, so we did number one, number two, number three is 13 reasons why is that side? Okay, that’s suicide. I was the one that was adapted to a Netflix show or whatever. Yeah. Okay.
Alyssa 21:25
Are we allowed to say that on a live in yourself?
Naomi 21:28
Oh, yeah. I’m not sure. Um, yeah.
Alyssa 21:31
By the way, that really pisses me off as a medical professional, I find it really just It is, it is, I don’t want to say it’s negligent. But it’s, it is kind of, because you so well, the most important things with analyzing yourself is actually talking honestly and openly with people and continuing to promote this idea that we can’t say the word or like it, all it does is continue to put shame around something where we need to be able to have frank and open discussions with people, one of the things you get taught when you work in a medical field is that if anybody says anything to you, that makes you think that they are going to harm themselves, or that they want to harm themselves, or they have ideations of harming themselves is for you to point blank ask them. Do you want to kill yourself? Have you been contemplating suicide? It is not you? We do not pussyfoot around this in any way. The idea is like to confront it head on. And I get why with media there are it’s it’s more nuanced, I get that. But to suppress people’s discussions of mental illness because it broke through an algorithm because of whatever ridiculous sensitivity beliefs you have. It irritates me because I feel like it does more harm than good to suppress people’s language in a blanket way.
Naomi 23:00
Okay, so you’re talking about how social media suppresses that kind of talk. But, FYI, again, this was Monday, September 22 27th. September is suicide prevention and Awareness Month. Yes. Okay. It’s very important to talk about it. It’s very important to allow other people to talk about it, because it could save someone’s life.
Alyssa 23:23
Yes. So when people say analyzing, and they feel like they have to say it, because their tech talks gonna get suppressed, or like, some algorithm is going to suppress them or they’re going to get something taken down. That makes me really angry. Because unless you’re doing something that is glorifying, perpetuating, well, if you are giving actual supportive, informative information and having those kinds of discussions, they should not be fluffy up with. Happiness, soft language, they should be talked about, factually. Yeah, the facts are. People kill themselves. We need to talk about this. Yeah. So that people understand the pain that those people are going through the pain with the families and friends and people connected to them go through afterwards. This is a huge topic. Yeah. That does not need to have things. You can’t just make a blanket algorithm thing that suppresses stuff based on a word.
Naomi 24:26
Yeah. Yeah, and I don’t. And I know we’ve used that underlying word on another podcast episode of ours. But I don’t think that the full knowledge dawned on me that the algorithm suppresses the word suicide. I don’t think that actually dawned on me until this very moment.
Alyssa 24:45
It’s often the case that the algorithms on various platforms will will suppress you. If you use the term which is very unfortunate. I agree. When you are dealing with is always, almost always best to approach things head on with various mental health crises. Yes, illnesses, there are times where you have to sort of navigate in different ways around it. But that’s something for like a healthcare, mental health professional to do because they are trained in how to be that kind of counselor, right as just regular people out in the world. Honestly, if you have a friend or a family member that is doing certain things, or saying certain things, sometimes just asking them the question will make them confront it head on. It’s so true, there’s usually something else going on under the surface. And sometimes you’re not going to help somebody and it sucks. And it sucks. Yeah, and there’s nothing I can like but you have to try right? And making up all these like safe words for it. I just feel like that aren’t really safe. Under my thought, yeah,
Naomi 25:57
they’re safe words that aren’t really safe. It just makes my
Alyssa 26:01
personal opinion is that it makes it adds shame. another level of shame it adds another level of shame
Naomi 26:10
now you’ve made it seem like the word suicide is a dirty word you know, but this is this is something that many people face is because they’ve wanted to do it themselves or they are related someone or our friend of someone that actually did commit suicide You know, I think I think America has a really bad habit of renaming things to try to make it seem less scary but I think in the end that ends up bringing more harm about the situation itself
Alyssa 26:46
because we end up hiding something yeah hosts actually just talking about it
Naomi 26:50
yeah
Alyssa 26:52
there’s a few books on here that deal with with suicide on what is Looking for Alaska deal for a deal with I don’t even
Naomi 26:59
know what the EFF never read john green so I don’t even know what his books are about. But isn’t that one of the most popular ones that Looking for Alaska?
Alyssa 27:06
Yeah, it’s a pretty it’s grief hope. I don’t I don’t know. I don’t know why they don’t like it.
Naomi 27:15
Joke number five George by Alex Gino. Never heard of that one. I you know, I don’t want to make a blanket statement, but I just feel like I just feel like if any of these books talked about sex, smoking, drinking, queer life, you know, anything that promotes being proud of being a person of color I just think that’s a that’s an automatic like, No, no, we must not have these books.
Alyssa 27:45
I mean, the next one on the list and Tango makes three is a children’s book where two male penguins raise a baby penguin? Oh,
Naomi 27:52
god forbid.
Alyssa 27:54
God forbid.
Naomi 27:57
This is such an example for our children.
Alyssa 28:00
And we know What irritates me about that is like those penguins don’t even have to be in a relationship those penguins could just be like two dudes that are like shit I’m gonna raise this kid cuz this kid don’t have no parent. Exactly. We’re gonna do this together. I mean, what was it three minute ob? We’ve never dealt with this topic before. It’s not like an unheard of phenomenon. It doesn’t just have to be sexual. And guess what? folks? Sometimes animals are gay.
Naomi 28:34
There you have it folks. Don’t freak out.
Alyssa 28:38
Don’t freak out sometimes. Sometimes animals are homosexual.
Naomi 28:42
Don’t freak out.
Alyssa 28:43
I mean, I understand why 50 Shades of Grey is on here.
Naomi 28:46
That’s surprising who would
Alyssa 28:49
what but you know, but you know like half the church ladies that have banned 50 Shades of Grey are also sitting at home reading it.
Naomi 28:56
have read it have read all the books in the series. Okay. Can tell you about it page by page. They have favorite characters. They
Alyssa 29:04
were not taking note. Exactly. We’re not they were not not spicing up their lives with it.
Naomi 29:10
Exactly. So yeah, that one?
Alyssa 29:15
Yeah, that’s Yeah, the blue sky. Good old Tony Morrison.
Naomi 29:20
I feel like I read somewhere that that book has been challenged quite a bit over the years. Quite a bit.
Alyssa 29:28
You know, here’s my here’s my shameful confession. I don’t believe I’ve ever read Tony Morrison. Not even not one. I don’t believe so. I’m gonna have to fix that.
Naomi 29:39
We should definitely read more Morrison. Oh, it has
Alyssa 29:43
incest and child molestation. And do you know how many books have incest in it? It’s not going to get us banned. Because I said the word incest. You read books of incest. I mean, you know, half the books I read for that defunct reading blog I did with FDF Oh yeah, like incest books, and I don’t like reading about incest Am I going to ban them? No, but I do now like it guess what is something that happens? That’s real life. It is a thing that happens, but I do know like, yeah,
Naomi 30:09
I have not read too many. I’ve only read. I’ve read Beloved, which I’m going to read again and I read Sula. Whoo, that knocked me off my feet sooner was good. But yeah, I would like to read all of her works as well.
Alyssa 30:24
Yeah, I realized that like, I thought I had read Tony Morrison, but I think I just I bet you there was probably something I was supposed to have read in high school. And I just didn’t because I was being a high school student. And that somehow in my brain, just equated me to having read it. And then I tried to listen to there was a book that came out maybe late last year, like the Tony Morrison book club or something like that, oh, where a bunch of different authors write stories about their relationship to Toni Morrison stories, I guess. And I realized that like I couldn’t listen to that book because I do not know her catalog well enough to listen to that book. And so I do have to fix that because I don’t remember who’s in that Toni Morrison book club thing, but there was a bunch of like really good writers that collaborated on that piece.
Naomi 31:14
Yeah, I’m looking forward to getting through her work. I have, I don’t know maybe seven or eight of her books because on one of my book thrifting trips, I walk into savers and there were like six or seven of her books just right there.
Alyssa 31:34
Well now that I’m doing the the book knock or at least like part one of the book now fantasy fantasy corner is not done yet. Not even started but I have like a tower of books that I have to get rid of. So will we need to look at our calendars and it’s time for me to come down and we can do a thrifting yes we can try to find
Naomi 31:55
and maybe you’ll look up and find some Morrison James
Alyssa 31:58
like my shameful I haven’t read it
Naomi 32:02
I mean like you said in one of our other episodes like you can’t read all and know about all the books you know you can’t why I’m looking at reading not this is something that you do over your lifetime and you know as you get older you learn about more authors and more books and you know you’ll add them to your collection and and read them eventually
Alyssa 32:21
he was so nice pulling out my so so far I have out for everybody who doesn’t just talk to me all day every day. So so far I’ve pulled out and and shelved almost all of my fiction and all of my mystery thriller sort of books, and my nonfiction those are all like categorized and I’ve gone through them my fantasy and romance is all a hodgepodge at the moment. It’s just seeing my fiction collection. Like I don’t know, it just made me feel good to like see all the things that I’ve I haven’t read and all the things I have read and sort of reacquainting myself with myself. Does that mean oh boy makes perfect sense through through my my book collection. So like I forgot, like just how many having ways I have because I love Hemingway, and how much I love Bukowski even though like grumpy koski is like a chauvinist, pig misogynistic drunk. changement what a fantastic writer. But I love the koski like, I especially loved him at the time that I got into him when I was you know, a jaded just, I don’t know, angry teenager, you know. So it’s fun going through those and it’s fun seeing the things that I’ve added to it. And yeah, I
Naomi 33:42
love looking at my home library. It brings me just such an immense amount of joy. I love looking at my books. I really do. I just I can’t imagine not looking at them every day.
Alyssa 33:55
Yeah, hey, this is like holy shit. Why is kite run around here? Is it because of the
Naomi 34:02
so crate runner is what is number 11 right after The Bluest Eye? Yeah. Oh, so funny because Hunger Games is number 12. And I never got into the Hunger Games. That was way. I was already too adult to read that I just don’t even I never had an interest. I
Alyssa 34:18
love the hummock Hunger Games and I was an adult they were just like fun reads I have no desire to like have them on my shelves or ever reread them or anything like that. I thought the movies were pretty bad. And
Naomi 34:29
the models were good. I enjoy those.
Alyssa 34:31
But why are you banning them? Because why are they Why are they challenged? Like,
Naomi 34:39
I can’t imagine why. I mean, I honestly can’t imagine why.
Alyssa 34:46
Like, is it because they take children and kill them?
Naomi 34:49
Oh, maybe that’s it. May the odds be forever in your favor.
Alyssa 34:53
All right. Right. It’s like it’s not real people. It’s Have you ever read a young adult fantasy Like every young adult fantasy is like there’s a girl. She’s not like other girls, her parents are either already dead or about to be dead. And then, you know, a bunch of people like, there’s so much trauma, I guess what can I let you in on a little secret? everybody listening? trauma is a part of life. It is it’s how we, it’s how we deal with it. That’s important. That’s right, which is why we need to talk about stuff. It’s why we need access to mental health care. It’s why we need to unshaped mental illness, trauma, PTSD, anxiety, depression, all those things. Take the freakin shame out of it. Because everybody has trauma, big T, little t trauma. It all exists. Yep. And I won’t exist. And what you think is trauma. The other person might not think right, I experienced this trauma. And that does not invalidate the other person’s experience. Speak
Naomi 35:48
the truth. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let’s see what else was on this list? Did you ever read. So number 14 is The Perks of Being a Wallflower. I never read that. Love that. But a lot of people love that that was
Alyssa 36:01
that I read when it came out. And it was like of, I know that a lot of people still relate to it. But for me like that, that was like my late teenage years. That is such like a feeling. And that that is the suicide one too. So
Naomi 36:20
Oh, what is I never knew what that book was about. So this is this was suicide as well.
Alyssa 36:25
I mean, I think a lot of people under so here’s the interesting thing. I feel like regular life, under cells, how much mental anguish you go through as you’re growing up, and how little support systems there are oftentimes for people to deal with that slash learn positive coping mechanisms. And you can have a lot of unhealthy mental health things that relate but fallout from that. But books are really good at exploring that, because I think oftentimes the people writing these things have had these experiences, and it’s almost cathartic to work through it. And people relate to it because it’s relatable.
Naomi 37:08
That’s the whole point, right?
Alyssa 37:10
Because growing up is hard. Being like that time from the end of high school to through the end of college, I feel like is one of the most difficult stretches of time in your in any, like young adult like Yeah, because you are expected to make adult decisions. But you do not have like a solidified prefrontal cortex. That’s right, you are not an adult. And you’re expected to make adult decisions that are going to affect you for the rest of your life. It’s a lot. And when you come out the other end, especially now, you know, our grandparents came out they had jobs. Right Thing.
Naomi 37:46
Yeah. They had, they had a classic level of life security.
Alyssa 37:51
Yeah, we come out. And there’s what did I do all this for? Now? You’re in an existential crisis? Yeah, with crippling debt, and, you know, unhealthy coping mechanisms. mechanisms, like Exactly. What are we doing? Right? So yeah, there’s a lot of stuff for us to explore here, right? You’re not gonna let us if we’re not going to do it, at large in the population, at least let us have the fucking books that talk about
Naomi 38:17
it, right? I mean, it’s like, you know, look, maybe there are some people out there you know, you’re fortunate enough where, you know, your family can like cushion you from hard times. But for most of us, we experienced like real life. And it can be pretty crappy sometimes. Definitely difficult.
Alyssa 38:38
I mean, even if you think somebody has it nice and that they are Cushing from hard times. There’s still stuff happening, like everybody has, like, you don’t know what happens behind closed doors, you don’t know what happens in people’s brains, you don’t know how their brain chemistry was from the get go. Like, there’s so much that goes into how we are, sorry, mental health, it’s something I care about,
Naomi 38:59
Well, I mean, we should all care about it. And again, unfortunately, I just, you know, America does a terrible job at mental health.
Alyssa 39:06
A lot of places do but we’re just terrible at a lot of things. So he just just pile it into the wheelbarrow of shit we’re about out because we have a culture of just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and you’ll get there right? Like that is that is the American dream that is the American way you know, suck it up, Buttercup, let’s go and yes, there is some aspects where you need to learn when you enter the adult worlds that there isn’t an aspect of suck it up Buttercup. But you also need to have positive healthy coping mechanisms to be able to suck it up. Yeah. Because you you’re not sucking it up Buttercup for 24 seven, you have to do it usually for a period of time. And then those off times you need to be able to like helpfully deal with that.
Naomi 39:53
You’re right things need to be in place in our society, to give us the resource And the access to proper and affordable mental health services you know and that’s not always the case so we need to get it together anyway
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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